So recently I became aware that something I had written, about someone else, had hurt another person very dear to me. My initial intentions for what I had written had been endearment, and adoration for this person, and pleasure at being like them. Unfortunately, to others who might not know me personally, or intimately, and not know the person I was referring to, my words could have been taken as mocking and thoughtless. And I totally understand how my words had caused pain. For this I am completely sorry. But it got me to thinking about how what I write, or what I say can be so often misinterpreted by others. And for me, in my writing, my being misunderstood, or people interpreting my words in a way that I had not intended, is not at all uncommon.
But how often does this happen to all of us in general life?
I know that I probably frequent the misunderstood table more than some, and this is the curse for having a few too many opinions, and being too honest for my own good. But I am quite sure that all of us, whether as overt with our thoughts and opinions or not, will have had our intentions, or words misunderstood at various times.
And knowing how often this happens got me to thinking about our interpretation of the bible.
If I, as a human, can write something, which is intended to reveal my heart for others and my questioning about past experiences, and have it so completely misunderstood by those who know me best, what makes me so sure that my interpretation of the bible is completely accurate, being that the bible was also written by humans, and to take it a step further, has also been translated into my language so that I can understand it?
I know, that in my many years in church I have heard completely opposing messages based on the same scriptures. Both opposing messages have been preached by well meaning pastors, or 'spiritual leaders'. Neither of the messages were intended to cause harm to the listener, despite some may having done so. And both parties truly believed that they were preaching the truth. And more than this, both had many others backing their interpretation, and much theological support.
So therefore, how can we know which interpretation is actually Truth?
And if our interpretation cannot be 100% accurate, how can we ever justify confidence in our communication of the Truth to others?
This leaves me wondering if this is even our role at all?
And I love to listen to others' journeys!
If their interpretation of the bible, or life, differs from mine, is it my job to try and convince them of what I believe and my interpretation?
It could be that my interpretation is wrong. As it could be just as likely that theres is wrong also.
And with so much variation, and so many grey area's in life, and so much that is between the black and white, (as my darling friend so suitable named her new blog), why is it that we cling so desperately to so much that is subject to change and interpretation?
So therefore, is our role not to simply, as Jesus puts it to Peter, “Feed my sheep”? And if this is the case, what are we all most hungry for?...well my answer to that, as I am sure you will all have guessed already, is love. But once again, this is just my interpretation! :-)
Hey Joe - interesting post! As you might suspect I'm particularly skeptical of a lot of biblical interpretation by many Christians. Given that it has so many translations - including one commissioned by a King (James) who was widely believed to be gay and/or a child predator, I think some skepticism is justified. I think that the original scrolls were the Word of God, but I am not sure the modern bible or any mortal interpretation of them is. At the very least however, the bible is most certainly open to interpretation; God is pure and we are not so anything we read is always going to be subject to outside influences. So really it comes down to what you choose to spend your time on and what example you want to lead. Demonstrating unconditional love while remaining true to what you believe is probably the most understated aspect of Christianity; far too much focus seems to be on debating, converting and/or judging. Just my 2 cents :)
ReplyDeleteI like the direction of your thought.. You need to challenge everything huh
ReplyDeleteRebecca,
ReplyDeleteCrazy, I didn't know that about King James?? I totally agree that anything we read is subject to outside influence! I wish we were as pure as God, and that we could be confident in having the COMPLETE and ACCURATE translation. I have to say, I do love a good debate though...partly cos I grew up that way, but mostly cos I love thinking and challenging even what I believe...fell like I wasn't always free to do that! So its refreshing!!
Andrew, you could definitely say that I am in the space at the mo...I think its a back log of most of my life not challenging anything!! Haha!! :-)
I love a good debate too - what I don't like though is what is debate/discussion for us, becomes a battle to prove/convert/judge for others with love for others being the ultimate casualty. But good stuff on writing these kinds of posts - I'm totally loving it! Also loving the debates on FU questions too. Such a refreshing change to see so many christians being open, admitting they don't have all the answers. :)
ReplyDeleteRebecca, yeah I can totally understand that! When it turns personal, and when debate starts being about proving your point at all costs, its about time to stop for sure! I know that my family, throughout our years of debating always ended up pretty heated and frustrated by the end of it!
ReplyDeleteI wonder how we balance debate so that it doesn't turn personal? Or will it always be personal, because we hold dear to what we believe?
I have been loving his latest blogs on FU Questions. Haven't been reading all the debate though...might have to go catch up on it!! :-) I love the way he writes! And the way he thinks! I can relate to so much of what he says!! :-)
This is possibly my favourite of your posts so far. I even spent a painful amount of last weekend reading a book on the history of theology - just so i could understand where some of our most accepted ideas (our - meaning christians) came from. I kept lamenting to Simon that I wished i was smart enough to write a book with the same content that i would want to read. Doesn't it seem weird that we spend all of this time reading the bible and going to church and we know that part of the story but we (and I mean me) don't often know much about the last 2000 years and how christianty has become what it is? That should be important right? We have the story from Adam and Eve until the NT but then what...
ReplyDeleteJoe - yeh I reckon debates will always have a little bit of personal feeling to them, but for me I think the real issue is most people are too chicken to discuss stuff openly in terms of being able to validate other point of views as it somehow threatens them. Something which is commonplace in adulthood in all areas - there is a serious lack of emotional maturity out there....not saying that I'm super grown up, but as people we are really quite spineless: attacks come from a place of fear and many people are afraid to ask/debate the big questions. But those of us who have been thrown onto our backsides & forced to accept some humility have surpassed this fear which I think makes us better in these kinds of debates
ReplyDelete@ black & white - that's how I feel - some people have all the super smarts to write about or respond to complex theology questions (like Andrew above ^ I suspect) but I spend all my time reading & re-reading the stuff trying to get my head around it!!! There is definitely more of a story to be told, but I wonder whether it really has to be that complicated? Or is that just par for the cause...given we are discussing God after all!
Libs, I totally agree!! I don't know much about the history of Christianity, and most of what I do know is not because I've sought that out myself, but because I have been told something at some point by someone!! I totally reckon it should be important...even for us to be able to understand any theology at all!! Haha...I applaud your reading that book, man I would have given up at the end of page one!! I am useless with books like that!! :-) Thanks for the compliment by the way!! :-)
ReplyDeleteRebecca, I do agree, validating others opinions and points does seem somewhat lacking in much debate!! I know our family debates lack this at many times!! Myself included often!! :-(
Hey Sis,
ReplyDeleteThought I would ever so briefly share my thoughts on this:
One thing that we Christians often neglect (and I'm talking more about Protestant Christians here than Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox) is the role that history has played in shaping our ideas and theology. Many of the questions that are raised today by Christians and non-Christians alike have practically all been asked before at some point in time. This is how much of what is considered 'orthodox' has been formed. Someone said: "Does it possibly mean this?" someone else said, "not sure, so lets learn, read, pray, and talk about it." A lot of this stuff has then been recorded, and we can see how they came to their conclusions. We also trust that the Holy Spirit was leading the church community into a more correct understanding of who God is and what it means to follow him.
However sadly too often we don't listen to the voice of Christian history (the last 2000 years). We re-invent the wheel. It's not to say that history is absolutely correct and definitive about what is truth or not, but it certainly plays a very crucial part, along with 'reason' and 'experience' and obvious scripture. This is what 'doing theology' is all about!
My two cents for what it's worth.
Love ya!
Sam.
Hey Sam,
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your thoughts!! I do agree that we often neglect the Church history...like what Libby said, how many of us actually know our Church history, and what has shaped Christians before us!! I am ashamed to admit that my history knowledge is crap!! You are lucky to be learning all that you are! We will have sit down and you can fill me in on a lot of it!! :-)
My question would remain the same though...from what I know, even throughout history, there are conflicting theological views. For example, what Rob Bell wrote in Love Wins, was not new theology, and is originally part of Jewish theology, (so I gather, I might be wrong there?). But this is completely conflicting Roman Catholic theology. So this leaves people still having to decide independently for themselves which theology they believe! Which leaves me wondering, if both parties were spirit lead, and asking genuinely what the Truth is, then how did they come to such different theological stands? Which makes me wonder just how much personal experience comes into it!?
Thoughts??
Love ya back!!
xoxoxoox
Yeah,great response!
ReplyDeleteThere are clearly differing positions on certain elements of faith. There always will be. The search for truth is clearly a complicated question and there are many factors that come into play. Like you say, experience would be a big one. However the fact that there are differing theological positions does not make a case for the non-existence of truth altogether. Unfortunately this is where I think we can fall off the band wagon a bit. Discussion, debate, prayer, thinking etc. around what is true and what is not is a wonderful process that we should all be embarking on. This is how much of church doctrine in particular has been formed. Have you heard people say that 'there is not such thing as absolute truth!'?? It's quite common in this day and age, as a result, people do, live and believe whatever pleases them. However this statement is a truth claim in and of itself, so in fact it's what we call 'self-refuting.' Clearly a chair is a chair regardless of how many people agree or disagree with that statement. So perhaps the question that needs to be asked is: how do we assess the validity of a 'truth claim' or theological position? And this is a great question to be asking!
I will just briefly mention further that while there is much opinion and disagreement about many element of the Christian faith, say between Protestants and Catholics, or Protestants and Protestants etc. there are fundamentals that all agree upon, as they are the core of our faith. These are things like the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. To believe otherwise is not simply another potentially valid interpretation of the Bible. This is why some matters are put in the category of heresy. The implications of the above points about Jesus however, have massive implications for everyone whether they choose to accept that 'truth claim' or not.
Back to you.
Love Sam.
Haha...I love your point "'there is not such thing as absolute truth!'?? It's quite common in this day and age, as a result, people do, live and believe whatever pleases them. However this statement is a truth claim in and of itself, so in fact it's what we call 'self-refuting.'" You make a good point, to claim there is no truth at all is to still cling to a 'truth'!! Touche...(I'm not sure if that's how you spell that?)
ReplyDeleteYeah I do agree that all theological standpoints in Christianity claim the death and resurrection of Jesus! Anything not claiming that will likely be more related Jewish or Muslim faiths. So yes for me, I would definitely claim that there is an absolute truth. And Jesus and love, would be that truth. Other than that, (how we are expected to live that out, the theological discussions within and surrounding that etc), I do believe is left open to much question and debate and thinking. My absolute truth would be to love Jesus, and love others. But how that looks for me, and how that looks for another Christian, could be be very different, which is why we end up with so much debate...as you may have noticed. Haha!
When you refer to heresy, are you just talking about not believing Jesus death and resurrection?
For me, I would be careful throwing the word heresy around. And would personally never call someone a heretic. I believe it to be a VERY judgmental and negative word. I do not, and cannot ever claim to be perfect in my translation and understanding of the bible, or Jesus to have the arrogance to call someone a heretic. I generally believe that if people have come up with ideas that may not seem to 'fit' the Christian norm, there is a reason for it. To judge them because of that is to do more harm, and to not show love, (which is, after all, our role here on earth). For example, in relation to the death and resurrection, if someone were to claim that Jesus did not rise from the dead etc, is it our job to claim that they are a heretic, or is it our job to love them, and get to know them, and their reasons for not being able to believe this? The word heresy does nothing but isolate and exclude people. And I personally I feel that the Church, just as with the pharisees in the bible, have isolated and judged people with the use of this name at times. When I do not believe that judgement to be their job. But that was a little bit of a tangent...haha!
Back at you!
xoxooxo
The topic of Heresy.
ReplyDeleteLike you say, it's a bit of a diversion in some respects but relevant to your post in a lot of ways as well. I'll try and keep this brief, and feel free to end this convo if you don't want it to head in this direction on your blog, or we can chat on facebook.
While I agree that labeling someone a heretic can be particularly unhelpful, I do not think that labeling a concept heresy is unhelpful at all. There is a big difference between those two things. I want to be the first to put my hand up and apologise for the way 'us' in the church have been judgemental in the way we treat people. We have clearly made a mess of this sort of thing on many occasions, myself individually included as well. For this I'm deeply sorry.
I would want to say however that this does not mean that someones false idea of the Christian faith should not be challenged in a church setting if (and this clause is important), if this person considers themselves a follower of Jesus. However how you go about such a challenge is the important issue in my opinion.
The church has a responsibility to uphold the truth, this is part of their mandate. However truth must be spoken in love. Love is clearly the overriding principle in scripture. I think 2 Timothy 2:25 & 26 puts it well:
"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will."
There are many occasions in the NT where church members are told to be weary of false teachers (2 Peter 2, 2 Timothy 2, 1 John). Someone claiming that Jesus did not rise from the dead is undermining the foundation of the Christian faith, and the deity of Christ himself. And it simply isn't true. This is not to say that someone who believes this is to be labeled a heretic and treated with disrespect. They should be loved, respected and treated as everyone else deserves to be treated. So the point I would want to make is that there are times when the truth needs to be shared, but the only posture for that to ever be done, is in a posture of love! This is after all what Jesus himself did on many many occasions. He confronted the Pharisee's on many occasions about wrong beliefs they held of God. But he never ceased to love them in the process.
As to what matters of 'truth' someone would need to be confronted about, that is a much harder question to answer, but I would certainly at least want to say that the above mentioned fundamentals of the Christian faith would be some.
Sorry this is probably a bit long.
Love Sam.
Haha...don't apologize for long comments!! You have nothing on Ro!! ;-) My blogs can be long, so you don't have to feel your comments should command short responses!! :-) I love hearing your thoughts!!
ReplyDeleteYeah I think you are right, there is definitely a difference in labelling someone as a heretic, and talking about an idea! And I think this is where we as human, are so different from Jesus. We, by our very nature, struggle to separate our feelings for a person, from our feelings for a belief they hold! And I too can put my hand up to apologize for this, as for being a judgmental cow!! Man...I cringe at how I used to be back in my FULL-ON-SAVE-THE-WORLD-GOING-TO-BE-THE-NEXT-BIG-THING days...Aaron and I were having a chat about it the other day actually!!
I agree, that verse mentions that people should be gently instructed, but then goes on to say, that God will lead them into knowledge, (that's how I would interpret it). Which is why I question our need to ensure that people are believing what we consider to be the truth? Surely this leaves us with the job of loving people, and through this, God is able to speak to peoples hearts? Do we sometimes remove him from the picture, and take the responsibility of 'revealing truth' from him onto ourselves? Some of the most amazing stories I have heard about people meeting Jesus did not actually involve other people too much, other than to be shown love in some way, and they had a personal encounter on thier own, just them and God.
I think, if someone were to call themselves a follower of Jesus, and not agree with the fundamentals of the Christian faith, the afore mentioned, I would not be so determined to instruct them in these fundamentals, but question their reasons for believing otherwise, and, if they wanted to know my heart on the matter I would share it, or if they were asking my advice, (and you training to be a pastor, will likely have this opportunity often, so you will be coming from a more, 'this is my responsibility' type line of thinking), otherwise, I would just love them anyway, and pray for them, and believe that God is also having a conversation with them.
I guess, for me personally, I know that I am completely flawed as a human, and for me to start telling someone, what I believe they should be thinking and believing, (no matter how much it is done in love, and in the past it often was...sort of...that and because I was told that that's what good Christians do), I am placing myself, and my beliefs on a pedestal. I am better than them, and I have better knowledge in this area, and what they think is wrong, it is less than what I think, and therefore I have immediately isolated this other person, through my need to 'share/prove' the Truth.?
But then, this is also coming from a bit of a screwy history, so it is me figuring out the balance. And at the moment, I simply cannot get past just loving people. Anything else, I simply do not believe to be my responsibility. Because ultimately, and from my own experience, if there is ANYTHING that will change hearts and melt people, it is just love...no matter what love...I don't care who you are, your background, your choices in life, your beliefs LOVE.
I'm not sure if I got on a bit of a tangent there...trying to answer and get ready for Greece at the same time!! Haha!!
Back to you...if you are keen!! :-)
xoxooxox
HAha...and mine was even longer...so definitely no reason for you to feel bad!! ;-)
ReplyDelete